38. The Fear of Access to Public Benefits for Undocumented Immigrants with Celia Valdez from Maternal and Child Health Access (MCHA) and Immigration Attorney Nora Phillips

On the 38th episode of Immigration Today! Angeline Chen welcomes Celia Valdez and Nora Phillips.

Celia Valdez has been working in health outreach for over 25 years. As the Outreach and Education Director with Maternal and Child Health Access (MCHA), she has worked diligently with local and state government groups ranging from community-based organizations to government agencies to improve access to free and low-cost health insurance programs. She has advocated on behalf of hundreds of clients, provided testimony on their behalf before government boards, and has made numerous health policy recommendations at state and local levels.  MCHA (MCHA) improves the health of low-income women and families through advocacy, education, training, and direct services.

Nora Phillips is the founder of the Law Office of Nora E. Phillips, APC, in Boyle Heights, Los Angeles. She has been practicing immigration law since 2007, with a focus on immigration remedies for survivors of violence, disabled immigrants, and individuals who have been deported from the U.S. She co-founded Al Otro Lado (AOL), a binational legal services organization, in 2011. While at AOL, she ran the Deportee Program the Healthcare-Legal Partnership while co-supervising the Case Management Program for holistic client advocacy. Prior to that, Nora co-founded Phillips & Urias, LLP, a community immigration law firm in East Los Angeles. Prior to Phillips & Urias, LLP, Nora was a Staff Attorney at the Central American Resource Center (CARECEN) in Los Angeles. 

Celia became passionate about public benefits while in college when she heard a presentation about prenatal healthcare access for immigrant women. She found a job opening at MCHA and has been there for 27 years since! On the other hand, Nora moved to New York in her early 20’s and started becoming involved in civil rights work involving Muslim populations after the 911 attacks. Eventually Nora landed in Chicago and went to law school and has been doing immigration work since. Celia and Nora work together as they both sit at the intersection of public benefits and immigration work. Whether its sending VAWA approved or U Visa approved cases to access public service benefits at MCHA or Celia sending over immigrant populations to seek legal services back to Nora, they both share a passion in making sure everyone is educated about the resources they can access so that no one falls through the cracks.

MCHA has training available for people that want to know the in and outs of public benefits in LA county. You can access those trainings here. They are always in need of donations. Please consider donating via this link. Follow them on Instagram and Facebook to keep up with their work!

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Transcript

0:15

Hello, everyone. It's Angeline Chen. Welcome to Immigration Today, where I interview leaders, advocates, experts, and volunteers in immigration and immigrant rights on the issues, their experiences, and how you can make a difference. Today, we have Celia Valdez and Nora Phillips. Celia Valdez has been working in health outreach for over 25 years as the outreach and education director with maternal and child health access that's in Los Angeles County. She has worked diligently with local and state government groups ranging from community based organizations to government agencies to improve access to free and low cost health insurance programs. She has advocated on behalf of hundreds of clients. provided testimony on their behalf before government boards, and has made numerous health policy recommendations at state and local levels. Nora Phillips is the founder of the Law Office of Nora E. Phillips. In Boyle Heights, Los Angeles. She has been practicing immigration law continuously since 2007 and is licensed in Illinois. Nora is a 2007 graduate of the DePaul university college of law. Her practice focuses on immigration remedies for survivors of violence, disabled immigrants, and individuals who have been deported from the U S. Prior to starting her own practice, she co founded El Otro Lado, a bi national legal services organization in 2011. Nora served as legal director from 2011 to 2022. While at El Otro Lado, Nora ran the Deportee Program, the healthcare legal partnership, while co supervising the case management program for holistic client advocacy. Prior to that, she co founded Phillips and Urias LLP, a community immigration law firm in East L. A. And before that, Nora was a staff attorney at the Central American Resource Center, also known as CARECEN in L. A., where she managed a high volume of U visas and VAWAs and ran the DACA program from 2012 to 2014. Prior to Cadescent, she was an Equal Justice Works Fellow at Legal Aid Chicago. She is fluent in Spanish and French. She's received the following awards, the National Immigration Project of the National Lawyers Guild Annual Award 2019, National Lawyers Guild Los Angeles Chapter Annual Award 2019, East LA Women's Center Mujer de Paz Award 2019, the YWCA Pasadena Women for Racial Justice Award, 2018, Michael Maggio Memorial Pro Bono Award, American Immigration Lawyers Association 2018 Child 10 Award, the Sophie Stenbeck Family Foundation and Courageous Luminatius Award presented by the National Immigration Law Center 2018. Oh my goodness. Thank you both for being here. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much, Angeline. No, it's awesome. Awesome. Thank you for your time. Now, both of you are so incredibly busy. Is it okay if we start talking about you guys and just like We'll just, we'll have, we'll be conversational. I'll just get into the meat of it right now. Yes, please. Awesome. Thank you. So I want to start with Celia. Uh, I read a little bit of your bio, but I'd love to know a little bit about yourself, a little of your background and why do you work in public health, public benefits, um, or in, in, you know, why do you have a, of a passion for this and helping people, helping immigrants, um, tell us a little bit about yourself. Oh, yeah, sure. Thank you so much. I, um, When I was just entering college, I was fortunate enough to be hired for, uh, uh, to work for, um, a County Board of Supervisors as a representative. And I was going to school and also working under, um, late, uh, Supervisor Gloria Molina who passed away just last year. Um, and I worked in her district as a field rep. Shortly after that, I worked with her for about two years. Um, and then I transitioned. I worked under, um, uh, former Senator Hilda Solis, who is now county supervisor, but I worked for her when she was in the Senate as a field rep as well, and I was responsible for health and children's issues, meaning I had to attend all meetings, stakeholder meetings, community meetings and so on. Anything that was related to children or health issues. When I, um, there was one meeting that I attended back, I want to say in 95, 1995, where the state was getting ready to transition the Medi Cal population into managed care, where they were going to mandate the transition of everyone on Medi Cal into managed care. And I attended a stakeholder meeting, and at that stakeholder meeting, I heard my current boss. provide testimony. And she was so fierce. She was scary, but she was so passionate. And I was very young at the time, um, in my very early twenties. And I said, who is this woman? And she has so much passion. And some of the things that she spoke about were basically You know, defending those who were unable to basically advocate for themselves, which were the disabled population, the immigrant population, and so on. And, um, I, I basically was so interested in learning more about her and her role, um, and, and her organization. And I did my research and there was no internet at the time, so I couldn't Google her organization, but I did my research and I, I realized how instrumental she was in expanding access to Medi Cal to undocumented pregnant women, that her, basically her passion for this, for Medi Cal and for expanding Medi Cal and for pregnant women came from, um, The the crises that we had in L. A. County in the in the late eighties and early nineties where immigrants were not receiving prenatal care and showing up to the E. R. at L. A. C. U. S. C. at the time and delivering in the hallways because you know the hospital was up to capacity and women were not receiving prenatal care and we're just showing up to deliver and that's for her passion came from. So I became very interested, um, in in the organization and everything that she stood for. And the yeah. The minute I realized that there was a job opening, I applied, and I've been there for 27 years, and I started as a caseworker, really tackling individual cases, specifically managed care, because people were transitioning, they were so confused, and they were just faced with so many, um, access issues, so I started sort of Working with individuals as a caseworker and soon after that I want to say like a year or two into that I became a supervisor and then I've just kind of been promoted up and now I oversee this department that I'm just so passionate about to I'm just, you know, I feel now we've kind of, we've Transition from the title of like health outreach worker to health care navigator. So I oversee a team of health care navigators because really it takes someone helping you navigate through these systems of care because our systems are so complicated here in California, well across the country, but in California, and there's so many programs. And even for an individual like myself who has employer sponsored coverage, like the minute you're diagnosed with something, it's like, It's everything just becomes so overwhelming and it's really hard to process. So, you know, it's really helpful to have like an advocate to basically stand with you throughout your entire journey to ensure that you have access to all the services you get the author is timely authorizations of for treatment that you make sure you get your paperwork when the paperwork and excuse me that you understand what you're signing and what you're getting into and what your rights and responsibilities are. So that's how I got into this work and I love what I do and I work with individuals, you know, like like Nora and other legal entities and other community based organizations and we refer, you know, back and forth to each other. And I rely on their expertise to, you know, our population is the immigrant population and we have, we were really fortunate we have an indigenous community. outreach team that actually goes out into these untapped communities and speaks to people in their languages who are helping us basically spread the word. And we're getting clients, you know, that represents so many different populations, indigenous populations. And I'm, I feel so blessed, you know, to have the opportunity to serve Angelinos because really that's everybody makes up, you know, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. That's amazing. Like and, and just, I mean, I can hear the passion in your voice that you really like what you do, um, and there's definitely a huge need even to navigate the healthcare system, even for myself, for people who, you know, I'm a lawyer, I could read documents, but I don't even understand it and imagine people who can't speak the language and, you know, and are undocumented and, or it's just, you know, I can't even imagine the help that they would need. So thank you for all the work you do. Um, Nora, I want to turn to you a little bit and I'd love for you to kind of go through where your passion for just helping immigrants. I mean, you've been an advocate for for many, many years, but how did it start? And how did that spark for you in terms of in your passion for helping immigrants in the US? My origin story. Um, okay. So my origin story is, um, I don't know if you know this. Uh, so I lived in, um, I, I graduated from college with a bachelor's degree in French. I'm from a small town in Wisconsin. Uh, And then I'm, I, I did AmeriCorps Vista in 2002 to 2003, um, September, 2002 to September of 2003 in New York, and I lived in Brooklyn. Mm-Hmm.. And during that time, do you remember N Sears? Yeah. Okay, so N Sears. Yeah, N Sears is why I'm an immigration attorney. Um, because I lived during the period that winter of 2002 and I lived near a very, uh, so I lived in kind of like, uh, on the border of Sunset Park and Bay Ridge, Brooklyn and Bay Ridge has a huge Muslim population. And so, and, and the, and Brooklyn in general has like large, some large pockets of Muslim populations. And so in, um, in the winter. Of winter of 2002 slash spring of 2003, there were like a couple of roundups and like registration dates. And so I was like, 21, 22 year old. So trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I spoke a couple of languages just because, um, And was kind of like interested in, like, you know, I wanted to be a human rights lawyer, but I didn't really know what that meant. Well, I mean, I, I didn't know what it meant because when I found out later from a colleague that you're just kind of like sitting in the Hague all day and air conditioning, I was like, that is not what I want. Like, um, at all. And so, um, but I remember seeing these, I remember like making eye contact with a father who was sitting there. Standing in the cold outside with his son. Cause it was boys 14 and up, and there were just lines of absolutely terrified men standing outside waiting to register just because they were from a certain country that had nothing to do with, you know, uh, and so, uh, yeah, it was, I was like, well, I'm going to do whatever I need to do so that I can help them. What do I have to do? Law school. Let's go to law school. So then I went to law school. Um, and we moved to Chicago. I spent a year kind of like getting my ducks in order. I was doing work with terminally ill adults and, um, at a now defunct nonprofit, um, that was sort of like make a wish for adults. And then I went to law school and I did the immigration clinic and I was like, I want to be, you know, I didn't, and then I definitely wanted to do direct service. Um, and so I basically was like working at Legal Aid since I was a 2L. They, they, they thought I was a lawyer the whole time, so when I finally like, I'd been there for like a year or so, I was already running the U Visa program, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm Samar! And they're like, what? Now, like what I know, because we were, we were only able, so you know about LSC Legal Services Corporation? Mm-Hmm. The big federal pass through org. Okay. So in like 2006 I think was when there was like the Kennedy Amendment happened and it's, it allowed, um, LSC funded organizations to do, um. To do certain immigration cases, including the U Visa. And the U Visa was still very young, didn't even have implementing regs yet. And so my boss, this, uh, Lisa Palumbo, who's still there, she's amazing. She gave me 68 files and she's like, yeah, we've been holding on these. Wow. It's something called the, it's the U Visa, learn about it. And then I was like, okay. And I took her instructions very literally, and I've been doing U Visa for 17 years. So, um, but anyway, yeah. N Sears, um, I, I, I, that was the. That was what turned me into an immigration attorney, civil rights attorney. Cause I consider what I do, you know, I consider myself a civil rights attorney. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, thank you for that story. I did not know that. So I'm glad we're all learning this at the same time. So I'd love to get into kind of how do you work with MCHA? How, what is a, like a, like give an example of a case where they would be helpful for some of your clients? So if I have Oh, gosh. I mean, okay, so I have a lot of clients that are that are really sick. Um, and so I will if they ever have any issues with public benefits, I will I feel like it's like a one way street. Like, I feel like I owe Celia like a car and a house and some pound cake or something. Some big money then I'll expect it. Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. a lot of money in this kind of work. And so, yeah, if I find a bunch of money somewhere though, like absolutely. Um, but she's just so good at explaining eligibility things. So most of the time, most of the time I know what my clients are eligible for, but I have, you know, like I have a case. For somebody who's like, it's an I 751 and she's got like, you know, there's DV and there's like, and I'm trying to just, you know, just like the really, the technical, um, aspects of public benefits stuff. And I just, I go to her and she comes to me sometimes with like really sad cases that are so, So awful that if I describe them, they're so unique that they'd be identifiable. So, um, but just think like, just think organ failure and borders. Okay. My gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Where you have to be like, which organ again? I have several cases. Oh, so sad. You know, it's always tragic, but it's, but, but, and then I also work with her a lot because one of my. is, um, diabetes outreach and other hard to reach, traumatized folks. So I w Like the city, you remember the guy who was most certainly dish, it was most certainly released from prison, but Medi Cal still had him incarcerated in their computer and he's standing there with me at County hospital with like a, an ankle, the size of a grapefruit. And I'm like, he's not, he didn't break out of prison. He, they let him out. He's right here. Well, in our system, it's still, I'm like, yeah, this is. I'm an absurdist. Um, so, you know, just like very straight, the intersection of public benefits and immigration is I don't know if it's arguably as complex as immigration and criminal law. I mean, it's extremely, um, yeah, it's just, it's so critical. And just knowing it's not just what they do, it's how they do it that makes me love them because they truly don't let anyone fall through the cracks. They're very persistent, um, with client outreach and like, and I love the fact that they're working. I'm also like a big language justice person, especially in healthcare and especially for indigenous populations. So I was like, could not contain my excitement when you mentioned that, um, Celia, yeah, amazing program. I wish we had free time so we could learn about this not on a podcast, but I'll take it through a podcast. Um, that's fantastic. Um, so yeah. Use her for her skills and then offer nothing in return. So, yeah, no, I mean, look, she, Sylvia, you're the organization you're working for has specific expertise and Nora, you just happen to have a lot of people who need it. Right. So, and I don't think enough people know about it. I don't think enough people know about what you do, Sylvia. Um, did you want to kind of go into a little bit more like, Are most of the people undocumented that you're servicing or like, what are the numbers of the statistics looking like? Kind of, um, it's a combination of individuals that we serve. Most of them are immigrants. Um, I want to say about maybe 50 percent are undocumented and the other 50 are just like immigrants that have either legal status or in the process of adjustment. Um, what, what we do is, you know, I've mentioned that, you know, the health care is so complex. Um, and and the good problem that we have in California is that there's a lot of programs. So we really try to find a fit. So nobody like Norris's falls to the cracks. So nobody goes uncovered. And, um, and the challenge for us is. basically the education, right? We have to let people know and also easing people's fears about applying for these programs. Um, I, uh, look to Nora for, you know, for information or clarification on, on status on like, can someone who You know, it leaves a country. Will this person be able to come back? Um, what are the chances of that? What should this person do? Um, I look to her for that type of clarification. Also, someone who's in a violent situation, like what's the best or fastest way, um, to get them serviced, to, to get them screened, to see what kind of visa they may be able to qualify for, um, and so on. You know. I can talk about, for example, like a case that comes to mind is of a of a single mother who basically had a mental health breakdown and ended up being hospitalized because she, you know, she was single parent, and her kids were dependent on her and she was undocumented, and she lost her job because she had been using a fake social. Um, and she basically was caught and she lost her employment, um, and she was Ubering on the side, um, just to put food on the table. Uh, one of her children, she had three children, she has three children still, and one of her children has cerebral palsy and is a citizen, a U. S. citizen. And because of everything that happened to her, because of her. You know, misuse, right? Or she, she, she committed a mistake by basically making up a social security number for herself. But she did this because she was trying to sustain her family, right? Right. Um, he was so afraid after, you know, she went through all of that, that she terminated all benefits, including his SSI benefits. Um, so she was basically trying to sustain her family and this very special needs child with her Uber job. And she, she was, so she ended up having a nervous breakdown. So when I, could I take a moment? And since immigration attorneys are going to be listening to this, Celia, could you, I'm literally have goosebumps. Could you please tell them that like, not everything is a public charge because they'll end up making an on giving uninformed advice to their clients. That is absolutely catastrophic. And Angeline, you and I see this on listservs all the time. And you're like, I want to write back and be like, no, none of these situations are public charge. Could you please talk about that? Sorry. Yeah. So we know for a fact that medical is not a public charge or any type of health care benefit. Neither is any other type of benefit that your child receive who's basically receives it legally. So the only way someone could suggest. That you're maybe considered a public charges if you have no other method of sustaining yourself, but if you are a working person, whether you're, you know, you're working as, you know, a housekeeper day labor, whatnot, and you are basically sustaining yourself and your family, there's no way that you could be deemed like public charge because your child receives SSI benefit. Now, what about CalFresh food stamps? So, CalFresh, only those who have satisfactory immigration status can receive CalFresh, can receive CalWORKs, can receive SSI. Okay, and CalWORKs for the corporate attorneys out there is, uh, is, yeah, it's cash assistance. It's also linked, it's also linked to your Medi Cal benefits. No, WIC, WIC is a separate program and that's run through the um, oh my gosh, I can't think of it now. It's the, the, the farm, the, where is it, the um, oh USDA. Yeah, so people don't have to worry about WIC, but no one really should be concerned about public charge. Who's doing health benefits? No. Yeah. We yell it from the roof. Yeah. So I'm so glad. Very, very common that we get individuals that say, I don't want to apply because my attorney said I can't apply for anything. And then I'm like, well, who's your attorney? And it turns out it's a notario. It's not an attorney. Sometimes it is an attorney. And so on the phone and I asked for that person. I said, excuse me, like, What is it that's going on with this case? She doesn't want to apply. She has a very sick child. What is the situation? And we kind of help remedy and rectify that, but we, we can't capture every single case. That's what I worry about. Those people that don't have a phone number to call an advocate to call, right. Someone that's looking out for their best interest. And so this woman, like she had dropped her benefits yet. She had dropped her child's benefits, his health benefits, His, um, social benefits, his SSI benefits, everything, because she was so afraid now after what had happened. And she wound up in the hospital. She ended up with a huge medical bill. Um, so we had to, you know, advocate to get all their benefits reinstated and sort of clarify that. And that's, you know, uh, you know, and get her connected to, uh, you know, uh, uh, a legal organization that could represent her as well on her other situation. Bye. That's just like one example of, of, of how, and, you know, right now, I think, like, California, like, it's progressive in the sense that we're covering more people, and we've gained Medi Cal expansion on January 1. Anyone that's poor. Um, who gets on medical regardless if you have legal status or not gets full comprehensive coverage. It's just amazing, really fantastic. And this is part of the health for all journey that started in 2016. We started basically expanding to comprehend comprehensive coverage for children. And then it went to young adults, and then almost two years now, we expanded a 50 plus. for having me. And then this past January, we said everybody right that 26 great 10 year old and so with that comes, you know, it's wonderful, we have coverage, but with that comes another set of problems right is managed care. So we also do a lot of education and do a lot of you see around managed care, because. We all know how that works. Those of us who are insured even through our, you know, private insurance know how complicated and how that's a money driven business. And so oftentimes these people are subject to long waits, not only for care, but for authorizations. for specialty denials for certain treatments. Um, uh, second opinions, people don't know they have a right to second opinions and to go outside. So a lot of what we're dealing with is this, this type of work specifically is really making sure that people understand that they have a right. To timely access if they have a right to anything that's medically necessary that there are what's called as referred to as TARS treatment authorization request that doctors can submit for things that are off like a formulary. But if you really need it, MediCal is going to pay for it. Those are the things that we are working day in and day out on and helping people with. Um, you know, it's not okay that you're waiting for an authorization for an open heart surgery. If you need open heart surgery, that means you probably need it yesterday, right? Oh, God, it's not okay that you are waiting for that. It's not okay that Your benefits were terminated because you were deemed over income and you're in the middle of dialysis, right? Um, it's not okay. Um, so those are the issues that we tackle. And of course, there are people who are immigrants are very intimidated with the system because they don't understand it. Even for those of us, like I said, the know it, it's intimidating. I have my own worst advocate. I realized like when I Have something going on with me I feel like so weak and I feel so sick and I feel like so overwhelmed with like the diagnosis and now I have to be on this and I have to take this and I just feel like even, you know, it's hard to advocate for oneself. And that's, you know, such a Uh, more complicated situation when it comes to immigrants because first they're not, they don't know what the system is. They don't know how to navigate through it. And so it really takes someone to handhold and explain and basically, you know, support them through the, that journey. Um, no, man. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That it's, you know, what I want to do is, um, when we post this podcast to include some links to information, um, if you have specific links on the website that, you know, be kind of easy to access for people to see the different benefits it can have or, um, If they have FAQs or, um, you know, I, I, I have, I have ideas and I'm sure so does soda. There's a, there's a chart. There's a really good chart. Yeah. But no, we'd love to, it's like, it's like ILRC level charts. Wow. Yeah, that'd be great to include so that people can see, you know, like what, I mean, obviously they, it's still difficult to navigate on your own, but it's still, at least it's some education, some information, and then they could continue to, to, um, or they could reach out, obviously, to MCHA. I know you, you're, you're all super overwhelmed as well, but it'd be great to have some information that we could, we could send out. It's hard for me too. Absolutely. Our goal really also is to ensure that everybody has somewhere a medical home. We try to find it. a medical home for every individual because not everyone's going to qualify for Medi Cal. We understand that some people may be over income, um, and whatnot. So we try to find a fit for every person. And so that is also our goal. So there's, I refer to Medi Cal a lot, but there are other programs that we screen for and we make sure we help enroll into. And then there's so many platforms, um, that are used to enroll. And we basically provide all that enrollment support as well. It's great. That's great. Um, Nora, you were talking a little bit more about the UV says, and, um, can you go into it a little bit more about, uh, we were talking a little bit offline. I'd love for you to, uh, explain kind of what UV says are and, and how you've helped them. And, and did you say that they are, they are able to receive public benefits, correct? Yes. So the thing about the UV is, uh, That's amazing in California. Well, there's two things that are incredible that are California specific about the U visa, which is to answer or to give a little bit of background on it. It's a, it's a, um, it's an immigration remedy for victims of certain crimes who've cooperated with law enforcement. So, um, the top types of cases I see are rape, child sexual abuse, and felonious assault, like shooting, stabbings kind of stuff, probably in that order. And then, um, it does have a pathway to residency. It's an extraordinarily long pathway, but it's still a pathway. Um, it's not like just a renew it until you die kind of thing. Um, I actually been naturalizing some of my UVs of clients lately. And it feels great. I love it so much. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I went to one like three weeks ago and they did the oath the same day. So I got to go to the oath and be like, um, so yeah, so it's, uh, but at the very beginning, so there's, I don't know of any other remedy where while you are waiting for it to be decided, you qualify for something. So asylum. You don't. So if you got an I 589 pending, you're not gonna qualify for, um, CalFresh or CalWORKs. You're gonna probably get Medi Cal just because, like, It's like, right, Celia. I don't know. I'm see this would be where I would bother her. Um, so, but you're not going to get any, there's no money either to buy food or in the form of food stamps or cash assistance. Right. And so, um, but with the U visa, so there was a large group of advocates, including, um, I think the main person was Sheila novel rest in peace. She was a, um, an attorney at the, um, at Lafla, the legal aid foundation of Los Angeles. And. Fun tidbit for the crowd, she and I figured out that my parents went on their first date in Wisconsin in the late 60s, early 70s to her brother's play at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee. Anyway, gosh, cool. Her and Helen's floor are within like a three mile radius in Wisconsin. So anyway, um, but she advocated so hard for, I don't know, 80, 18, 99 is what keeps coming into my brain, but that could very well not be at all what the law was, but it was almost. A state law that passed that allowed people with pending U visas to get CalFresh, so food stamps, CalWorks, cash assistance, and unrestricted Medi Cal. And that is such a game changer because you're not going to get a work permit through the U visa until like 2075. So, you know, it's just, I don't know. It's all, it was an absolute lifeline. It is an absolute lifeline to so many people. Um, and the other thing that's different, even though this doesn't really have to do with public benefits, but the other thing that's very different and makes you visa practice in California, vastly superior, um, is the, the law that, um, Michelle Cary basically wrote, she's over at, um, LA center for law and justice, which, um, creates. It's kind of a requirement for law enforcement to certify within seven days that the persons in proceedings are 30 if they're not. And like, like all hail Michelle. So we just, I don't know, I get so excited about the types of, you know, kinds of advocacy that come out of, of LA makes me really proud that y'all let me live here and stuff. Um, but yeah, big, big difference. Uh, with the U visa in that having an application that is pending gets you public benefits. And there's a CDSS memo about it. Most of the, or DPSS, most of the county agencies, um, now know we used to have to send them letters all the time, reminding them of their own memos, but occasionally you will get somebody from like, Like, maybe San Bernardino or something where their, their social workers actively trying to talk them out of applying for it. So I would just, like, if there's any message from anything I'm saying, it's like, don't tell your clients that they're going to be a public charge. If you don't know what you're talking about, because you live in a big house with. Fancy cars and they, that, and, you know, might not be a big deal to you, but that loss of income to them, you know, like, just like you wouldn't, or you wouldn't just go ahead and we're out of your lane and advise on criminal or family law matters. Don't be out of your lane and advise on public benefits matters because, like, people are really, it seems like a very much an afterthought kind of. In a lot of attorney communications, I see, and that's very troubling. People need that county workers are not supposed to, um, they, they're not supposed to really screen on immigration eligibility or, um, inquire too much about it. Prior to expansion, there was something called PRUCOL, which is, uh, stands for permanently residing under color of law, which meant that anyone who was in the queue in the process of an adjustment, even if that process could take 20 years or whatnot, um, could be eligible for, for full benefits, Medi Cal benefits. And, um, county workers are not even allowed to, um, to offer Procol or to tell people that they could potentially be eligible for Procol, they're just not supposed to do it, which is, you know, could be, it's a, it could be a good thing, but it could be a bad thing too. Because, you know, if folks don't have. Um, someone to go to or turn to they will, they wouldn't know that they don't they don't know they need help. Yeah, right, right. Um, yeah, no, I think one other thing, just thinking about immigration and medicine. Um, so there are so many immigrants that have been medically traumatized, especially those who have been through a Ice detention, and I think that is something worth mentioning. Like, if you're working with people who are formerly incarcerated or who've been detained by ice, um, for any length of time, um, I mean, there's so many horror stories. You've got the four hysterectomies, you've got giving children vomiting blood, uh, Tylenol, and I mean, it's just, it's horrifying. So a lot of what I do and probably imagine what Celia and her folks do too, is, is like saying, no, it's okay. You're safe. Like these people are nice. And Celia is also a really good sort of resource geographically and by specialty, like if I could call her up and say, Hey, I got a lady with Medi Cal. She lives in Santa Ana and she just got diagnosed with breast cancer. Like, what are, you know, let me know. Okay, I heard this place. We have, we have good, good feedback from this place and try this place or something like that. Wow. Um, Yeah, but I think, uh, medical trauma, it's a, even if you were in ICE custody, uh, you, you might have it. Absolutely. So it's a good thing to kind of screen for. I go to appointments as part of my, you know, just like benefits if you're my friend is if you're really scared to go to the doctor, uh, cause you're traumatized, I'll go with you and I'll just be your cousin from Milwaukee. Oh, yeah, everyone, you know, a lot of people need that. I mean, yeah, I go with my notebook. I'm all masked up. There's always a reaction where they're like, Who's this? She doesn't look like your cousin. And then but then by the end, they're like, Okay, next appointments in a month. You're coming right cuz and I'm like, Yes, it is in my calendar. Because I'm disabled. I am thoroughly medically traumatized. I have an incredible directory of off the books Kaiser numbers in my phone. You know, I know, and I know, I know what it looks like when you have somebody that Looks tough on the outside that absolutely understand what's going on, but says that they do just because they don't want to be, you know, like embarrassed and I'll be like, Nope, you didn't get that. I see the way you're nodding. Could you explain that again in words that are easier to understand, please? Yes. Yes. I'm sure we, and we get that for the legal part. Imagine the medical way worse. Way worse. I don't even know how, I don't even understand any of this. I trans, one of the languages I translate is legalese. So I translate, I've helped, I've helped translate the phrases, firm resettlement and what was the other one? Well found. Oh no. Firm resettlement and scope of representation into two indigenous languages. Okay. Because I explain it in Spanish. I'm like, okay, this is what it actually means. And then the interpreters, it was at a, like a summit in New York. It was, it was virtual. It was so cool. I think we translated it into like Garifuna and a mixteco variant. But what is firmer resettlement or what is, but then talking to them and like working it out, I'm getting goosebumps working it out, like linguistically they were like, okay, so there's a type of cultural ceremony when you move into another village because you got married and we do it. And that means that you are stabbed firmly, like established. And I'm like, it's like that. Oh yeah. It's something good. Guatemala. But it's just like, yeah, yeah, no, it, it, it, it's very difficult to explain. And then the, and medical, I mean, the medic, the medical words, those terms are so difficult. It's intimidating as well. It's can't even spell. I can't even spell any of it. It's intimidating me, hopefully, into finishing my Master's in Public Health and Immigrant and Refugee Healthcare Legal Partnerships in the fall, so I'm about to apply, it's rolling admission, but it's like, because of people like, like Celia, and because of this, like, massively persistent problem, like, I gotta get my, I gotta go back to school for this, and then I'm gonna take over a hospital with Celia. She just doesn't know yet. In the meantime, we, uh, have Celia as a resource and MCHA. So we're going to segue into how can people help you, um, and MCHA, Celia? Well, I mean, definitely know that we should not be turning anybody away or telling people that they don't qualify for, for, for benefits, specifically healthcare benefits. In California, there's a program. For almost everybody I want to say for or for everybody. So that's one thing is don't, um, discourage people from applying. That's like the most important for me. Donates to don't donate. We are a nonprofit community based organization. And just like most nonprofits, we struggle struggle to keep You know, our, our agency staffed and we and our programs going and we don't turn anyone away when our funding sunsets. Like if we get different grants and it sunsets or whatever, the work just keeps going. We do not stop because the need is so great. So certainly if, um, if we have some, some folks with some big money or dollars, we appreciate, um, you know, um, funds. How much, how much money. How much money, what do you get, um, to, to do these like technical immigration cases? How much funding do you get for those? We don't really get funding for that. We don't. I neglected to say that we also have a, uh, a training contract with, um, under the county where we train individuals who want to do this work or who really want to know the ins and outs of these programs. And, um, and through the training department, which is, you know, works very closely with my department, we provide So much technical assistance, um, and we, that goes unsupported. We don't get paid for that level of technical assistance. We get some, sometimes, um, small grants here and there, but there's a lot of technical, uh, assistance that we provide and there, we get a lot of training requests too, and, um, oftentimes we just can't afford to take on all the, you know, the, to basically all the requests that we get for training and we tell people while you're open to sign up for our. You know, our open trainings that we open to the public that people want really, um, is specified trainings for their agencies or their entities. Um, so funding for that, but really funding to support the work so that we could continue outreaching to these untapped communities and providing like this level of support. One of the challenges also that we may get a grant to do this, but there's so much focus around enrollment. And not around like this navigation, this hand holding what happens once they're in it. Yeah, which is I tell people it, it means nothing to have insurance if you can't access services. So access is critical. And so if you don't have someone helping you and advocating for you, then, you know, having coverage means nothing. Having insurance means nothing. So, um, so definitely support and, and, and that area as well. Um, I would love to have more staff dedicated to different projects, things that come up. Now, Nora and I sit and we talk about all these things and everything sounds so wonderful and it's like, do I have the staff for that? Do I have a staff person to go with you to the border? Do I have a staff person that could, you know, um, focus solely on this population? I don't. Um, so You need money to hire the staff, right? Wouldn't it be neat if like, Yeah. I mean, I think, I think, I was, I was gonna say, wouldn't it be neat if like, some firm, like a firm like, just Like undertook that or something like a gigantic firm. Do we know one? Yeah, I wish. I wish, Norah. Well, it's, it's just, I know what you're, I know. I just, they're so, like, there's, like, stretched thin and then they're stretched thin and this place is just, like, they're so agile. They're so comprehensive. They're so caring and, um, they just really like, and they're so legit, like, don't, doesn't MCA, doesn't Department of Public Health. Or DPSS have their own employees go through your training as like a requirement. They do, DPH, Homebase, um, some people, they refer their family members to us. DPSS refers people to us. See? Cause they know you're gonna, they know you're gonna call them. And you know, we really, we really go out on a limb. I mean, on, on Christmas Day. Christmas morning, I got a call from a client to my personal number, right, who was in crisis because she had just been trained on putting in the feeding tube and changing the tube, the feeding, um, uh, of her infant, um, she, who had been discharged. And she just, she called me frantic. She says, I don't think I can do it. I think I forgot everything. I think I'm like, okay, hold on. I'll be right there. Um, you know, um, we really, we really go out on a limb for, for, for, for people. I mean, our, our, our job is coverage, but. Everything that has to do with just supporting people with their totally. Yeah. And I can tell how humble you are. I want to ask like how people can help. You're talking about like, it's educating other people and not getting to the point. That's why we need to know. I mean, I was going to get there. I mean, Nora kind of just step, you know, like I'm like, yes, yes. I'll talk to when you make me sound like the Scrooge McDuck. Like, Come on, lady. No, I, I I just know that our, like the listeners may, may be, you know, servicing this population. Absolutely. And then we're, that's important. We're hearing, you know, from people that they're so afraid and they're so intimidated. Yeah. And, and, and so they, they need as much education and support as possible. They, they, well, and also like how, like if you tell your client just because you feel like it, that they should like. Caught off. They should terminate their kids like Calworks or something. It's going to take them longer to pay you. What do you think they were using to pay you? Yeah. Right. No, right. You know, free up what they're making, uh, like a job is them horribly. It's just like, I just, you lawyers do not. Give bad advice. Do not give bad advice and public charge. Stop doing do not give bad advice. Um, so thank you. Ladies, honestly, for your time, you guys are amazing. Um, you have inspired me to kind of look into more to be more knowledgeable about this as well. It's, it is a handful, I'll tell you that. And, but I, I, and I know we just went through a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit of it, there needs to be more education about it for everyone, to service providers, to lawyers. Um, so let's make that happen. And hopefully our listeners are paying attention and interested and they can help and, and, and donate and be involved. You know, all of this is a movement to help people. Pro immigration, pro, you know, just helping people with all different, from different backgrounds. So, thank you so much, ladies, and hopefully I'll see you again. This was fun. I liked it. This was great. I want to do like a CLE, things are already brewing in my head, so, thank you so much. This podcast is intended for general education and informational purposes only, and should not be regarded as either legal advice or a legal opinion. 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