29. An Interview with Creators of Documentary Film “Seeking Asylum” – Rae Ceretto and Kelly Scott from Honeypot Productions

On the 29th episode of Immigration Today! Angeline Chen interviews Rae Ceretto and Kelly Scott. They are the co-founders of Honeypot Productions and creators of the film Seeking Asylum. Rae Ceretto is a director and cinematographer, and Kelly Scott is a producer. Honeypot Productions was founded in 2020 and is a female owned and operated production company specializing in documentary and nonfiction storytelling. They foster conversations of understanding, compassion, and growth in our world through visually stunning and character driven narratives.

Rae started her career as a photojournalist documenting refugees and women’s rights issues around the globe. At the age of 16, Rae completed her first documentary short film about the 1999 NATO bombings and death of former Yugoslavian dictator Slobodan Milosevic. She graduated with honors from New York University and went on to collaborate with some of the biggest companies in the nonprofit, commercial, and entertainment world. In 2021 Rae was named one of SHOOT Magazine’s emerging directors.

Kelly is an award-winning producer with a background in Fine Art.  After attending The Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art in New York, she began her production career working in advertising, fashion, and music. Her productions have won a Cannes Silver Lion, a Clio, Ad Age Campaign of the Year, and multiple Experiential Awards from Adweek.

Their film Seeking Asylum is a feature documentary that documents the challenges asylum seekers face and shows why asylum is an integral part of the American Dream. This film is an expansion of their award-winning short documentary, We Do Not Live Here, which was featured in Rolling Stone Magazine. It follows Kensy’s arduous journey from Honduras to Los Angeles where she is currently waiting for her asylum trial and all the issues she faces after entering the United States along with her children.

You can watch Seeking Asylum on Amazon, Apple, Google Play or other streaming sites. Please consider donating to Kensy’s GoFundMe page to help alleviate some of the financial burdens that her and her family face. Provide money for legal support to asylum seekers via these resources or volunteer here. You can follow Honeypot Productions on their Instagram to keep up with their latest work. 

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DISCLAIMER – This podcast is intended for general informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice or a solicitation to provide legal services. The information in this podcast is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute, a lawyer-client relationship. Listeners should not act upon this information without seeking professional legal counsel. The views and opinions expressed in the podcast represent those of the individual speaker only and are not necessarily the views of Clark Hill PLC.

Transcript

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Hello, everyone. It's Angeline Chen. Welcome to Immigration Today, where I interview leaders, advocates, experts, and volunteers in immigration and immigrant rights on the issues, their experiences, and how you can make a difference. Today we have Ray Ceretto and Kelly Scott. Ray Ceretto is a director and cinematographer. Kelly Scott is a producer, and they are both co founders of Honeypot Productions. Honeypot Productions was founded in 2020, and is a female owned and operated production company specializing in documentary and non fiction storytelling. They foster conversations of understanding, compassion, and growth in our world through visually stunning and character driven narratives. Their film, Seeking Asylum, is a feature documentary that documents the challenges asylum seekers face and shows why asylum is an integral part of the American dream. This film is an expansion of their award winning short documentary, We Do Not Live Here, which was featured in Rolling Stones magazine. Ray started her career as a photojournalist, documenting refugees and women's rights issues around the globe. At the age of 16, Ray completed her first documentary short film about the 1999 NATO bombings and death of former Yugoslavian dictator Slobodan. She graduated with honors from New York University and went on to collaborate with some of the biggest companies in the nonprofit, commercial and entertainment world in 2021 Ray was named one of shoot magazines, emerging directors. Kelly is an award winning producer with a background in fine art. After attending the Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art in New York, she began her production career working in advertising, fashion, and music. Her productions have won a Cannes Silver Lion, a Clio Ad Age Campaign of the Year, and multiple experiential awards from Adweek. All right, Kelly and Ray, welcome to the podcast. Hi, thank you so much for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is it okay if we just get into some questions about you and the film and your background? Let's get into it. Awesome. Thank you. So I, I love to start off with going into, you know, your little bit of your upbringing and your, and, and your background and how, how you ended up where you are today. Can we start with Ray? Yeah, well, thank you so much for the thorough intro. I want to like, just carry you around so you can Tell everybody because we've had to, you know, uh, since the movie came out, we, you know, that's a beautiful bio. Thank you. So a little bit about my background. I, you know, I started as a photojournalist. Um, I was working with nonprofit organizations, um, pretty much straight out of college. It's always been, you know, documentary work has always been what I've been wanting to do. Um, I lived in Serbia when I was 16, and I got really politically activated. You know, my mom was a filmmaker, my dad was a politician, so it's always really been a part of my core to focus on humanitarian issues, focus on political issues, and be really engaged in that way. So when I started working in the working world, I naturally sort of, Progress to the nonprofit space because I like to focus on humanitarian issues versus sort of these more conflict issues. I like solution based. Focusing on, you know, again, more of like the solution based humanitarian issues. So when I was working down at the migrant caravan at the end of 2018. I was down there with UNICEF and a couple other organizations, just seeing the women, seeing the way that the migrants were being portrayed, uh, in the news and the media was really difficult because the reality of what was happening there was incredibly different from what I was seeing. I was seeing women, children fighting for their lives. Um, fleeing their home countries and certain death and, you know, I really wanted to tell that story of what I was seeing down there and, and these women and their kids and, and kind of the journey that they had taken to get there. And then the natural progression of that was the journey after they got to the United States, which is what it was about. Thank you. That sounds awesome. I do definitely want to get into, um, how you even ended up with the migrant caravan. We're going to start with, uh, uh, Kelly first. Kelly, you want to get a little bit into your, your background and upbringing and how you. Yeah, sure. Um, so yeah, I studied fine art. I was a painter in high school and in college. Um, and then, you know, after college, I. Um, and I kind of figured that painting probably wasn't going to be my full time job. Um, and I wanted to get into something that was a little bit more mainstream media. Um, so I started working for a photography duo, and I didn't even really know, um, that a producer wants a career. Um, but you know, once I started working for them, they needed help producing their shoots. And, you know, I kind of just started doing that for them. And I found that it was actually a role that was really, really well suited for me. Um, Because of my creative background, you know, I'm able to talk to other artists about, you know, their vision and all of that, but then I also have, you know, a business side to me that a lot of artists don't have, so I'm able to kind of help them bring their ideas to life, um, you know, and kind of help them figure out how to achieve what they need to within, you know, the bounds of budgets and laws and all of those things, um, and so, yeah, I kind of Just started doing that and found that I really loved it and, you know, moved on to do advertising work. Um, you know, I've worked with some big bands like Ozzy Osbourne and Metallica on album artwork and tour artwork and things like that. Um, and again, I eventually, um, actually reconnected with Ray. Ray and I knew each other from when we lived in New York. We've known each other for, gosh, probably like 12 years now. It's been a long time. But she had moved away and, uh, I had recently moved to Los Angeles, uh, where she was living. And, uh, I had a commercial that we were doing for, um, a baby food company. And they wanted to tell a Mother's Day story that was an immigration story. And I was kind of helping them figure out how to do that. And, um, I thought of hiring Ray to go down to the border and, you know, shoot the camp and what was going on down there. Um, and so I ended up going with her to do that, and we totally reconnected and. It was just so refreshing to be working on a project that had a little bit more meaning, you know, like I was coming off of nail polish commercials where, you know, you're working 16 hour days getting called at 10 p. m. at night with creative directors melting down and things like that. And it just seems so silly, you know, compared to work that has a little bit deeper meaning. Um, so while we were down there working on that commercial, uh, Ray told me about her idea for We Do Not Live Here. And I said, it sounds great. I'm in, if you want to produce, you know, the rest is history, I guess. So we do not live here is also an immigration story. Yeah, so we live here was the short film that we created seeking asylum from God live here was, um, actually it was a proof of concept for a longer documentary and we ended up releasing it because of covert in 2020 as a short documentary to bring awareness to the migrant caravan to bring awareness to the women to show what was happening. Um, to show their living conditions where they were living during this time when the world was shutting down and kind of going crazy. And then when we released that, um, you know, we eventually expanded it into seeking asylum, which is, uh, U. S. asylum long policy based. Got it. Got it. So then what brought you there, Ray, was this commercial then? So I was actually down at the migrant caravan starting at the end of 2018, uh, working various projects. Like I said, I went and I worked on a project with UNICEF. I was down there, uh, working as a freelancer. And then because of that, Kelly contacted me. So I had already been there, I think for over a year when I brought her down. I wanted her, you know, we were working on this commercial, but we, I also wanted. Her to see what I was seeing. Yeah. So I took her to the camps. I wanted to, I wanted to get her a part of my larger vision and project and documentary that we eventually ended up making. And then what, yeah, no, totally. Why did you pick immigration as, as your. Passion. So it actually never, it wasn't intended to be immigration. So my passion has always been refugee work. So, you know, I worked in a lot of camps internationally. Um, I worked with Syrian refugees in Jordan, uh, with operation smile. I was at a UNHCR camp in Uganda. So it's always been kind of more of a refugee international issues that I've been interested in and focused on working particularly with women's issues. Um, obviously being a woman, our production companies, all women, I really. You know, I think that there's a unique story. There's a unique journey there. So my work has always gravitated towards the women in the camps and at the migrant camps, you know, the story there is immigration. And so it, again, it was just a natural evolution. Everything in our project has been so serendipitous. Um, you know, and so, you know, while we were down there, we were learning so much. So we were learning about immigration. We were learning about the problems we were learning about asylum. Um, and that ended up being something where I was like, We need to focus on this. We need to tell this story. Um, you must be the most low maintenance travel partner, um, ever from all your experience. Probably a toothbrush is all you need toothpaste. You could sleep anywhere. Um, any, any condition. I'll tell you this directors are never low maintenance. First of all, I think, I think, I think yes, I think yes there's two sides there's working side and then there's recovery side. We actually, on our first couple days of production in Tijuana, all of Tijuana. Ran out of water. Oh, no, it was a really fun way to start making the film. And, um, and we definitely had to be low maintenance because there was a lot of buckets involved and a lot of yeah, no water, no nothing. Yeah, we were working in the camp. So it was like, you know, Purell trying to, that's amazing. I want to congratulate you on this film because I was able to watch it. Um, it's amazing. Kenzie story. Um, I was crying the entire time and, and, and I was, I was telling you earlier that it does have this. It gets the story gets better, right? It starts. And we're, we're hoping you're probably going to have to do, like, an update in a couple of years when her, when she has her asylum hearing, whether or not she, she gets it and her family. But, um, I loved how you put the legal aspect in there. And interviewed all these, these experts and laid it down for people, because for me, as an immigration attorney, it's hard to explain the process of asylum and, and, and people hear these stories. And, but they don't really understand the process and I think you did a really good job in, in the legal aspect and making it very clear. What was happening to her and putting the statistics. And so I, I, I really enjoyed it. Uh, it's, it was really great. I did wanna ask, how did you pick Kenzie as your star for your documentary as the story? Either one of you. Do you want me to jump in? I can. Um, so yeah, we went down to the camps and by the way, thank you so much. That was such a wonderful review. And, um, it, it means so much to us that everything that we tried to do did come across and that it resonated with you. So thank you so much. Um. But yeah, so Ray and I on that, um, faithful trip to Tijuana with no water, uh, went down to interview a lot of different women at the camps. You know, a big thing when you're producing films like this is, uh, you know, ethics. So you want to find somebody that you feel comfortable telling their story, that they feel comfortable telling their story, that they're willing to be on camera, that, you know, they're not going to be harmed, um, as a result of the production and You know that they understand really what it means and what we're doing. And that's a huge part of our company. Also, our ethics and surrounding filmmaking and, um, any sort of media is just really trying to, uh. Be not exploitative at all and really work. You know, we just kind of see it as giving people a platform to tell their story and not so much as us coming in and, you know, making something out of it. Right. Um, but yeah, so we interviewed a lot of different women. Um, and it connected with, I would say all of them. Honestly, they all had incredible stories. And, you know, particularly after doing that interview process, I really understood what Ray was talking about where. Okay. You know, she's like, I'm watching the news and it just doesn't add up, you know, and again, after interviewing 15 women that are all telling these heartbreaking, horrific stories, and, you know, we're hugging and crying and all of this, it, it was so clear to me that, you know, we were doing the right thing. Um, but anyways, most of those women that we interviewed, uh, Weren't able to be on camera. Ultimately, they had family, um, in their hometowns and, uh, you know, that could still be targeted by the gangs and things like that. Um, and Kenzie ended up being our last interview. And we thought, you know, that day we were going, gosh, we're going to have to maybe go to a different camp tomorrow and try to meet more people because this, you know, just everybody is in such danger. Um, but miraculously, the last interview was with Kenzie and she didn't have any family and her home country anymore. And she said, I'm ready to go on camera. I want to tell my story. And obviously, as you see in the film, she's an incredible woman and, you know, someone that we really connected with just off the bat. Um, and so we just felt so lucky because like I said, it was, you know, getting dark out and we're going, okay, this is it, I guess, you know, we're going to have to try again tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. We met her and it was just amazing. Oh, no, she is a natural and I love how you did most of it in Spanish, you know, with it's her words, um, that you have the experts coming in, but it was a lot, cause I was actually trying to watch, you know, I'll confess I was trying to watch while I was doing something else, but then I realized, no, I'm, you know, my Spanish is only okay. I actually need to watch this because most of it is in Spanish. And it was really good. And I'm glad because the images are really important too. Um, but yeah, she, she was great. And, and I, I like how you talk. Right now, about the sensitivity while you're interviewing people, I, I actually have gone to the border and Tijuana many times, um, through a volunteer group called rise to reunite and that was created, uh, from Trump administration, zero tolerance policy. So we go down to the migrant shelters and provide a little bit of humanitarian aid and sometimes legal help. And I've been to that, that church that you, you guys were at, um, where she was at recognized it and. Every time I bring people, I'm like, you know what, like, you know, don't take pictures of don't take pictures of them because something they could be, you know, they're here for a reason. A lot of them are being persecuted. And, and we're very sensitive of that. And I'm glad, and I was a little scared when I was watching first because, you know, I, any movie that I watched my immigration, I'm always like, Oh, my gosh, please be right in the legal side. And then please don't like. You know, fantasize these, you know, add these, um, fantasies and try to make it as crazy as possible, you know, for us to be like, oh, yeah. And I, and, and this wasn't that and it was very sensitive. I could tell she was very comfortable with you on camera. Um, and, and so I'm really, I'm really glad you guys did it this way. Um, in terms of, you know, how did you plan on having it to be like, starting from 2018 or something to 2022 or what was the plan for this for this film. Following her story. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I think like with a lot of documentaries, you know, you, you have an idea, but you really don't know until you're filming because, you know, like you said, it was really important for us that Kenzie tells her story and there was like a natural ending and natural progression to this. So, you know, we truly did not know where it was going to go for a while. You know, we didn't, you know, not that there was no direction, but it was, it really needed to unfold. And at the end, you know, we do leave it open as you saw in the film, um, because that's the story of the majority of asylum seekers is this open endedness of when is my case going to go through? Am I going to get deported? Am I going to stay in the United States? There's this, this, this unknowing. And so that also was a part of the story. Yeah, I can't even imagine. You're so patient must be so patient. Well, I think I think we got really lucky, honestly, because, um, you know, lucky Kobe, but 2020 allowed us the time. And, uh, you know, the access Kenzie ended up being in Los Angeles when she had her immigration. Um, case and you know, she was in our backyard. So we had the opportunity and the time to film and I'll say this for Kelly safely, um, with Kenzie. And so it was really a blessing to be able to have, have her in our backyard. Like I said, have this incredible story and have it unfold in a way where we were able to not have any deadlines, not have any preconceived notions. And, you know, It was really important for us to have her tell her story. So you see, you know, and this was also something that I, you know, as a filmmaker at first, you know, it was super frustrating the way we had to make the film because I'm very visual. I'm, you know, I come from a photography background. I love high cinema. I love quality, but we really had to be creative. So there was. Zoom calls, text messages, WhatsApp, voice notes, you know, we had to document this in whatever way we could because we did not always have access to her, you know, we were all on lockdown. So, but that allowed her to, again, like tell her story, have these home videos, have these beautiful, intimate, you know, voice notes with our field producer, Libertad. And it allowed, you know, this, this kind of, this new way, like this new, this new, this new storytelling, which I don't know if I would as a filmmaker have. Been able to, you know, to, to, to know how to do otherwise. It was almost like we were forced to make the film this way. And because of that, now all of our other projects, I'm like, we get the main subject of video camera, they're telling their story, it's really important and it, and it, you know, they're much more comfortable too. And, and. It was just beautiful. Oh, my goodness. I love it when that happens. I love it when that happens. Um, what, what surprised, was there any kind of something that happened throughout the filming or the information that you got that surprised you? That's something you didn't expect. Asylum. I think every day. Yeah. It, I mean, when we were in the peak of filming, I mean, this was peak Trump, uh, Asylum policy era of just what can we do, you know, every day to make it harder. And, you know, all these policies, you know, ping ponging through the court. So one day MPP is here one day. It's not, you know, Oh, now it's back this and that. Um, and so it was. It was just so difficult to follow along. And I think that that was something where, you know, I felt like I knew about asylum going into this as somebody, you know, who reads the news and, you know, likes to be informed and knows about education, education, immigration. Um, and then, you know, as we started kind of peeling back these layers of the onion, um. To understand what was happening to Kenzie and, you know, what she was going through, it was like Ray and I were on the phone constantly being like, did you know this? Can you believe this? And, you know, I mean, a huge one was, I remember watching, um, we were watching Immigration Nation and all of a sudden, Ashley Tabador comes on and she's talking about how the courts are in the executive branch and they're not independent courts. And I'm going, what? You know, I called Ray and I was like, Did you know that? You know, we start researching. So it's just kind of that whole, you know, journalism aspect of it, of trying to dive into these policies. And then it was also so difficult because a lot of these Policies, you know, they, they would come out in the media, uh, and you would take them at face value, but then we get on the phone with our legal team and they would be like, oh, well, they're saying this, but it really, this is what's going to happen because of that. And, you know, it was just so complicated. And so I think. For us, we felt that it was so important to try to create a film that, you know, a normal person after watching it could walk away and feel like they had, you know, a better understanding of the asylum system and this process that we put people through. And it was, as Ray said, it was difficult to know what was going to happen to Kenzie and it was difficult to know. You know what policies, you know, a certain policy that we included at one point, then, you know, having to take that out because it was no longer valid years later and things like that. So it was just really an ever changing, ever evolving project until we locked picture and had to say, okay, you know, as of 2022, this was true. And we're calling it a day. So. Yeah. The truth is you can never stop because it keeps changing so fast. You know, the, the policies keep changing and you're like, Oh my gosh, I know, I know the same, the same, you know, have the same issue with my podcast. I, sometimes I have an attorney who's talking about how to afford a two or MPP or something and something lifted and something's like, we got to get it out because it'll be outdated. You know, it happens so fast. Um, and, and, but your film is, it's so, it's still the present, like what you, what, what the film is saying now is still true. And, um, which is. Um, unfortunate actually I kind of wish, you know, things were way better but, um, and so we're really hoping for that too. You know, I think we didn't know what was going to happen with the Biden administration, and, you know, we were hoping that it would be a more positive ending then it ended up being. Which was tough, um, and that, the end's still tough for me to watch, um, particularly now, knowing everything that's happened, and how hopeful and excited, you know, Kenzie and her family were, their legal team, you know, really feeling like, okay, we're getting out of this and, Trump nightmare. And, you know, here we are two years later and, you know, not much has changed. And if anything, you know, now we're bringing asylum bans back and things like that, that we really never thought we would see. So yeah, it is, it is really, it's, it's really sad because people are super excited. I mean, I wasn't buying it. With Biden, but a lot of people, I wanted to, but I just didn't believe it. And I, and, and, you know, what are you going to do? You just hope for the best. Right? And, and unfortunately, just things haven't changed and it's still really bad. And we're still going down there and helping the shelters and it's even more people than it was before during the caravan, um, just stuck there. Yeah, and I think that it's one thing that we really want the audience to see after watching our film is that this is a humanitarian issue, and that, you know, obviously there are politics involved but the amount of politics that are involved in immigration and asylum is really unfortunate because it's a pendulum that swings left, it's a pendulum that swings right and, you know, the people that are getting hurt are the people that are trying to come here and find safety. So it's just, there's nothing there's no stable ground for people To hold on to, you know, everything's always changing. Like you said, and, um, you know, again, we really want people to see, like, this is a humanitarian issue, you know, absolutely, absolutely. It's not about them. It's about all of us. You know, it's not about those people. It's about all of us. Um, so for those who haven't seen the film, because I've been talking it talking about it, you know, uh, because I've seen the film, what is the. What is it about short? Yeah. So, um, our film seeking asylum is about a woman named Kenzie and her journey to seek asylum in the United States. So we start following her journey at the migrant caravan in 2019. We follow her through the pandemic and her asylum trial in the United States in Los Angeles. And then, you know, through a series of events, her, her journey to reopen her asylum trial find representation find a job all of the deterrence that you have within the United States. There are a plethora of deterrence that migrants have to go through before they reach the US border. You know, I could list them off, but we'd be here all day. Uh, but what we really focus on is what happens once you get into the United States. So like I said, everything from finding a job, healthcare, education, you know, these little things that I think that the audience can really relate to and. You know, Kenzie's a mother of four. Um, she has, you know, these incredible kids. And I think that a lot of people can empathize with her story because not only she can incredibly compelling and compassionate, but, you know, she's doing this to save her family. You know, her family was targeted by the gangs and she had to flee. You know, I think if anybody, mother, father, anybody faced with this decision can relate. And they would do the same thing, right? So that's really what we want to do. We want to bridge the gap of the other that you were talking about. We want people to see this is my mother. These are my kids. This is my father. These are just people trying to survive, right? And this is the option that they have. They don't have any other option. People think, oh, they're just want to leave to come to the U. S. you know how hard it is to leave everything behind with a backpack. I mean, I've seen people just with the bag and a baby just and going walking to yeah, walking up to the to the port of entry and being refused. It's the saddest thing. The hardest thing, um, in. Exactly. I hope a lot of people how, how is the film doing, by the way, the film is doing great. You know, we're streaming on all major streaming platforms, we've had some incredible screenings around the United States. We had our impact strategy campaign is something that's really important to our film. So we have incredible nonprofit partners and we've been encouraging our audience to support. You know, uh, asylum and immigration and our partners in any way that they know how, um, you can have to our website seeking asylum film dot com and you can see, you know, there's everything from hosting a screening in your local community to signing petitions to donating money to, uh, you know, renting the film, you know, so there's, there's really, there's really like. Multitude of ways that people can support and educate themselves and educate their community about what's going on. While you've been publicizing the film and, and just talking to so many more people in the media, have you, how has been the, the, how has it been received? Really well. Um, I think, you know, everything's been super positive so far. I think, um, You know, an unfortunate part of, as we were talking about before, is asylum still so relevant, um, you know, so it's still something that's being talked about in the media constantly, and, um, you know, I think there's still a lot of misinformation that's lingering, um, from the previous administration and the current, honestly, um, you know, so I think that's benefited us in a certain way that, you know, you know, We've been working on this for so long and we're so entrenched in this process that we, you know, can go on the morning news and talk about asylum and, you know, how to go on these podcasts and things like that. So, you know, it's definitely helped spread the word. I think, yeah, the reception's been really great. And, you know, we, a big part of this with creating the film was to also help the nonprofits that we work with. I think, you know, so many of these organizations, they're, Working with people on the ground and really, really burnt out. They're there at the front lines day in, day out and. They don't have time to spend four years making a film that encompasses an emotional story and, you know, facts and all of that. So, you know, again, like if they say a picture is worth a thousand words, you know, then I guess the movie is worth a million. Um, and so we've also kind of just said, hey, like. You can use this to show people like this is the work that we're doing. These are the kinds of people that we're helping. This is what they're going through. And I think, um, you know, audiences just really relate to that. And, you know, I, I think so far it's been, um, just wonderful and, uh, and really well received. And we've got a lot of people wanting to host screenings around the country and, um, with their own community is supporting asylum seekers, which has been. So heartwarming, I think, to see people that are outside of this legal world, you know, stepping up and wanting to participate and do what they can. And yeah, I think we're, we're thrilled that that's been the response. That's so awesome. Who are some of the non profits you've been working with, like some of the major ones? Oh my gosh, there's so many, um, yeah, UNHCR, KIND, um, Jewish Family Service, San Diego was a huge, huge part of the film, their legal team, and they were consultants throughout the project. Did you help her find them? Did you help her? Yeah, I was gonna say, like, when you're filming something, you're gonna have to, it's hard, like, not to, to step back, you gotta help them. I'm sure they, like, made some connections, right? Yeah, definitely. Keep going, sorry. Yeah. No, it's okay. I think that that's, you know, there's this, like, staunch journalism ethics of, you know, if somebody is dying on the side of the road, let them be and just document it. And that really goes. against our ethos as a production company. And, you know, obviously we weren't doing anything like to manipulate Kenzie's story or, you know, buy her like a positive asylum verdict or something. But we certainly were involved and were a resource for her, which I think is something that You know, it was so hard for her. And I think really eye opening for us, even like Ray likes to talk about this experience that we had where one of her kids Valeria, she had a horrible toothache, and they had just gotten to the States. I think they've been here. I don't know, a few weeks or something. Um, and they couldn't figure out how to get her. Dental care and you know, they don't have any money. They don't have anything. So, you know, I'm getting these photos of Larry and crying and, you know, of course, I'm like, I'm going to help you try to find a doctor or a dentist. It took me five hours to get in touch with a dentist that could see them and was taking new patients and, you know, was able to do something for free or at minimum cost. And I'm an educated native English speaker. With a phone and internet and all of those things and you know, Kenzie at the time couldn't read or write and you know, you're just going there's so many people that come here that don't have anybody to help them with any of this stuff and totally, you know, that's just such a little, you know, tiny speck of what she went through, but to experience that on my own as well, it was, eyeopening and, you know, Ray and I just kept going, what, how do, how does anyone expect it? Yeah. Any of these asylum seekers to succeed in any way when they're just, you know, basically taken to the border, said, see you later. And that's it. Like, It's, it's really heartbreaking. So it's shocking when they actually how they actually get stuff, get a job, get a place to stay. Yeah, the obstacles they had to go through. Yeah, we were told, you know, by several of our attorneys that, you know, Ken is truly the exception to the asylum story and that she was able to. Make it, make it, you know, she doesn't have a son yet, but she was able to get an apartment. Yeah. Work permit. I don't want to any, any more spoilers, but yeah, no, they're going to everyone's going to have to, to watch it. Um, thank you so much. Ray and Kelly, honestly, for making this film and just taking the time to, to. To follow this woman's story, you know, and because four years, I mean, and you're still talking about it, right? So it's really fun. It's more, it's more than that. You're making the film and you publicize it to, to focus on one story and, and one, one family is really, it's, it's amazing. Thank you. And, and I know it's gonna, um, open a lot of people's eyes, you know, a lot of people's eyes who are not already Involved, you know, I'm always thinking, how do I talk to people about it? Who don't already know? Like, when I, when I do speaking events, I'm like, I kind of preaching to the choir, right? Like, everybody's already, they already understand at least a little bit, but I, I really think that a film like this will. You know, change change people's minds about what they thought some was, um, about those people who just, you know, are the problem to the United States. Um, so thank you. Thank you so much. And I'm looking forward to any other future projects. You have yet to keep me updated. We definitely will. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. It's been great. This podcast is intended for general education and informational purposes only and should not be regarded as either legal advice or a legal opinion. You should not act upon or use this publication or any of its contents for any specific situation. Recipients are cautioned to obtain legal advice from their legal counsel with respect to any decision or course of action contemplated in a specific situation. 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