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Immigration Today!
Immigration Today!
42. How Newly Arrived Immigrants are Adjusting to America Via the Classroom – Jessica Lander, Teacher at Lowell High School and Author of Making Americans
On the 42nd episode of Immigration Today!, Angeline Chen welcomes Jessica Lander. Jessica Lander is an award-winning teacher, author, and advocate. She is currently a teacher at Lowell High School in Lowell, Massachusetts. She teaches history and civics to recent immigrant students and has won several teaching awards, including being named a Top 50 Finalist for the Global Teacher Prize in 2021, a 2023 MA Teacher of the Year Finalist, and the 2023 Massachusetts History Teacher of the Year. She offers a unique perspective on the role that public schools have in helping newcomer immigrant students succeed in America. Previously, she has taught students in middle school, high school, and universities in the United States, Thailand, and Cambodia. Jessica is an advocate serving as a district-wide family engagement coach, mentor teacher, and education consultant for national and state education policy organizations. She is also the author of Making Americans: Stories of Historic Struggles, New Ideas, and Inspiration in Immigrant Education, a comprehensive book that looks at immigrant education as told through key historical moments and court decisions, a book that shares current experiments to improve immigrant education and profiles of immigrant youth and schools across the country. She is also the winner of the 2024 George Orwell Awardee for Making Americans, which was presented by the National Council of the Teachers of English to, "writers who have made outstanding contributions to the critical analysis of public discourse".
In this episode, Jessica shares her journey in writing Making Americans. Jessica was able to take a year to step out of the classroom to delve into the research for writing this book. First, she tells us about stories from the past with cases such as Mendez v. Westminster School District and Plyler v. Doe, landmark cases for what immigrant education is today. She also talks to us about the present through examples of classrooms like her own or Las Americas in Texas which have taken the experiences of students and their varying backgrounds to build innovative and transformative education for their students. Jessica also delves into personal stories of students and educators in order to reimagine what the future of American education might look like.
Keep up with Jessica via their website, LinkedIn, and Twitter. You can purchase a copy of Making Americans on Barnes and Noble, Harvard Bookstore, Amazon, or your preferred retailer. Immigration Today! is always releasing new content. Please subscribe to our immigration newsletter to stay up to date with any new episodes.
DISCLAIMER – This podcast is intended for general informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice or a solicitation to provide legal services. The information in this podcast is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute, a lawyer-client relationship. Listeners should not act upon this information without seeking professional legal counsel. The views and opinions expressed in the podcast represent those of the individual speaker only and are not necessarily the views of Clark Hill PLC.
Hello, everyone. It's Angeline Chen. Welcome to Immigration Today, where I interview leaders, advocates, experts, and volunteers in immigration and immigrant rights on the issues, their experiences, and how you can make a difference. Welcome This podcast is intended for general informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice or a solicitation to provide legal services. The information in this podcast is not intended to create and receipt of it does not constitute a lawyer client relationship. Listeners should not act upon this information without seeking professional legal counsel. The views and opinions expressed in the podcast represent those of the individual speaker only and are not necessarily the views of Clark Hill PLC. Today we have Jessica Lander. Jessica Lander is a teacher, author and advocate. For much of the last decade, she has been a teacher at Lowell High School in Lowell, Massachusetts, teaching history and civics to recent immigrant students. She has won several teaching awards, including being named the 2023 Massachusetts History Teacher of the Year, a 2023 Top 10. 10 National History Teacher of the Year, a 2023 Massachusetts Teacher of the Year finalist and a top 50 finalist for the Global Teacher Prize in 2021. She offers a unique perspective on the role that public schools have in having newcomer immigrant students succeed in America. Previously, she previously she has taught students in middle school, high school and universities in the United States, Thailand and Cambodia. Jessica is also an advocate, having served as a district wide family engagement coach, a mentor teacher, and as an education consultant for national and state education policy organizations. Besides teaching, Jessica is the author of Making Americans, Stories of Historic Struggles, New Ideas, and Inspiration in Immigrant Education, a comprehensive book that looks at immigrant education as told through key historical moments and court decisions, profiles of current experiments to improve immigrant education, and portraits of immigrant youth and schools across the country. Just recently, Making Americans was awarded the 2024 George Orwell Award presented by the National Council of Teachers of English to writers who have made outstanding contributions to the critical analysis of public discourse. Jessica is also a co author of Powerful Partnerships, a teacher's guide to engaging families for student success, and the author of Driving Backwards. Jessica, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Excited to be here today. Well, congratulations on all your success. I want to hear everything about you've done. Can we get started to the questions? Absolutely. Awesome. Thank you so much. So I usually, I kind of start with. You know, going through a little bit of your background, I'd love to go into why, why did you pick teaching? Why did you want to become a teacher? Oh, um, I think there's so many wonderful end points into that. Um, so I'll give you like a few nuggets of each. I think one is, um, I had extraordinary teachers growing up, um, in elementary school, middle high, and then in university. Um, but particularly my elementary school teachers who, you know, really nurtured for me a love of learning, a love of writing. Um, and I think back on that now, particularly, um, so I was diagnosed in high school as being dyslexic, and I think as a teacher now, back at my childhood and recognizing that for many students who are also dyslexic, school is a sort of place that is not welcoming, is not a place where they, they feel that sense of belonging, that, um, they, um, are, um, curious thinkers and learners and like can excel in learning. And I think, uh, something my school did really powerfully for me was invest in all types of learners. Um, no matter how you learn, they, they, really inspired that love of learning, of writing. So I grew up learning to write and to read, and I really attribute that to my teachers. Um, and so I had that foundational, um, experience of loving school, but also recognizing that that could have gone very differently for me. In terms of why I entered teaching, um, I actually, I'd been planning to go into the sciences and I love sciences. Um, but I, uh, because I'm dyslexic, I was really focused on doing language study and knowing that immersion was the best way for me to learn. I, um, did a study abroad and, um, an immersion program in Tanzania. I was working on Kiswahili and while I was there, I visited a school that was doing really interesting work and was really succeeding with, um, low income students in a way that many schools were not. And I came away that night, I vividly recall that night going, I want to understand what this school is doing and how it's working and how it's, uh. Thanks. Um, really thriving with these students, and I, I can't understand that if I'm going to be a science major. And so I switched majors to anthropology and studied ed policy, um, and wrote my thesis on the school and then was like, okay, I'm going to do education policy work. Um, and that's what my career is going to be. But to do that, I really need. Some experience in the classroom, because I wouldn't take me seriously if I didn't have experience in the classroom and no one else should. And so I, um, about 3 days after 4 days after graduating college flew to Thailand and taught at University in Northern, uh, Thailand and Chiang Mai for a year and at the end of that year, um, The really the end of one of those particular one of the last classes, um, driving to a local temple and just weeping, realizing that that class was over and that community we had created was over and realizing I needed to stay in the classroom that I love teaching. I loved being able to learn for my students and in many ways I've been in classrooms ever since. Oh, wow. That's awesome. If you ever want to go back to Thailand and teach, my aunt has a school in Chiang Rai, just so you know. Oh, I would have to touch up on that because absolutely. Chiang Rai is gorgeous. I had friends who worked in Chiang Rai and taught in Chiang Rai. It's awesome. We just came back from there in December. It's just amazing. And it's so much cooler up there too, than Bangkok. Um, but I digress. Um, So, so then. So when did it start with your interest in helping specifically immigrant children? How did that come about? So I think to some degree, I mean, I had the, uh, privilege of being able to travel all around the world with my family growing up. And so learning from other communities and other cultures and other places since I was little. Um, and then of course, Teaching in Thailand. Um, I was teaching a range of different subjects, but thinking about also how you teach across languages. Um, I then came, uh, back to the U. S. and taught a little bit and then actually moved to Cambodia, um, and was teaching college women in Cambodia and didn't though know what I wanted to do and what, uh, sort of focus in education I wanted to have, but went to grad school and was at a, a career fair and talked with someone from, uh, the city of Lowell, um, who worked in the Lowell public school systems here in Massachusetts. And she mentioned that, um, Lowell had a really vibrant Cambodian community. And my ears perked up, um, and of course Lowell has the second largest Cambodian community outside of Cambodia. Um, the first being Long Beach, California. Long Beach. Yeah. I was going to say. Yeah. It's us in Lowell. And, um, it, the position was teaching immigrant origin students history and civics. Um, and so I, I went, um, again, not necessarily knowing how long I would be staying, um, not knowing that like, this was. The, the work that I wanted to be doing. And it was in Lowell working with and learning from my students and working with my colleagues in Lowell that I, I fell in love with this work. Um, and seeing, and we, we can talk more, but seeing just the extraordinary strengths of my immigrant origin students, I, I, for the last, much of the last decade, I've had the honor and joy of teaching immigrant students from about 30 different countries, from Columbia to the Democratic Republic of the Congo to Cambodia. It's amazing. It is. It's extraordinary. And they are extraordinary. And being able to learn from them and see the ways in which they grow has been such an inspiration. And it really has, um, for me, uh, been transformative. Um, that, uh, being in Lowell, I've found the work that I hope to do for the rest of my life. Wow, that's beautiful. How? So what is your strategy in in teaching in the classroom for these students? Or what? How do you teach them differently? If from teaching kids from all over the world, right? With different languages and what's kind of, you know, Your your way of teaching. Yeah. Um, well, so I think 1st and foremost is trying to create a classroom where my students feel a sense of belonging. And that is something I, of course, hope for and don't that might not necessarily be true for each students. Uh, we. create that classroom culture together, but I, my students are in the midst of creating new homes and new lives here. And that's really, really hard to do. And so as much as possible, how can I help create our classroom to be a space where they feel seen, where they feel safe to share, to talk, to grow, to learn. Um, and that can look and, uh, Sort of be in so many different ways. So it could be the what the classroom looks like having flags from every country that my students come from. But it's also in the ways in which there are spaces for my students to feel comfortable. So we have a calm corner in the corner that's modeled after one of the schools. I write about in my book that has Herbs from all over the world. So if you're, you're having like an off sort of day, you can sit in this space, um, and be smelling these herbs that might remind you of home, but also still be present in our classroom. You can check out books. It's really, and that's from, I think a lot of my classroom has been transformed by what I've learned from teachers across the country. Um, so like another one is, uh, my students can check out books from a social justice library that we've created that has 300 titles, um, mostly stories of immigrants. Um, and newcomers because I want my students to see themselves in the titles and the spines of these books. Um, but it's also in the curriculum. It's what we, um, what we're studying and how we're saying and how we're tapping into their strengths and their histories and their identities. Um, my students bring so many strengths to our classroom and to our communities. And so how do we make sure we are. Putting those front and center in the classroom, both recognizing them, celebrating them, but also investing in those strengths. Um, and I think too, I mean, my classroom, I'm particularly lucky to have students from all over the globe so that we get to pull on their perspectives of having lived in so many different places and their expertise. Um, but it's also, I mean, true of so many communities and schools across the country today in the United States, one in four students are immigrants or the children of immigrants. And totally. So newcomers are, um, vital parts of really almost every community and every classroom across the U. S. Um, I'm just particularly lucky that I get this really global community in my classroom that I get to learn from every day. That's awesome. I wish everybody had the same attitude as you did, um, around immigrants, but, um, You too! I know. Do you have like a, some sort of like a success story or a story that really touched your heart with a child of an immigrant family that, um, you know, that, that you feel like you've helped in your classroom and has maybe changed their life a little bit? Hmm. Well, I definitely, I mean, my students have transformed my life. I think before talking about my classroom, I, I might. Sort of just highlight a few of what I've seen other educators do that. I think it's really cool that I, I had an opportunity in writing my book to travel across the country to visit innovative educators, um, working in classrooms from North Dakota to North Carolina. And they're just like. Really powerful examples of what you're sort of saying that I think have been transformative. And so just a few of them that stick out to me, and then I can pull something from my class, um, is clearly one is that trauma sense of garden it, um, at which I first saw at Las Americas and Houston, Texas, where. That's a school for students new to the country less than a year, and they're recognizing that, um, kids are, of course, learning English, they're learning all sorts of academic skills, but they're, they're carrying a lot with them, um, as they're creating these new homes, um, they might have left families, um, in home country, they might be living with members of their family they haven't lived with for a long time, they're, they're navigating all sorts of new systems, and they're, they're That's like emotionally really, really challenging. And so this trauma sensitive garden is a space they created for kids to just be, um, and to, to smell and see plants that they would recognize at home. And then also, and beautifully, um, and I was hearing these stories when I was visiting, uh, It being a space to like open the door to conversation so that as there may be helping one of the teachers transplant a tomato plant from one bed to another, they get to start having conversations about, like, how hard it is to uproot this plan and put it somewhere else. And what does it need to grow in this new space? And I think that's a really beautiful way to start to get at some of those motions and create those openings for kids to talk. Um, I think about us. school, uh, in Georgia, the Global Village Project, which is a school for refugee girls who spent a long time at a school. Um, and today in the US, if you're say 16 and you've perhaps never had a chance at academic formal schooling, um, you are still going to be put in about 10th or 11th grade. Good luck. And it's just it doesn't work for most students, particularly if you maybe need to start at a kindergarten level of education. Yeah. And so what the school has done is recognize that school doesn't work for these particular kiddos and has created a special school just for these young women, um, that helps them tackle maybe academics that are at a kindergarten level. But not treating these young women as kindergartners, recognize that these are mature young women who shoulder the responsibility of adults for years and years. Right. That school, I think one of the things that struck me about that school most when I was visiting it was how much laughter there was just how much joyous laughter in every class. And I can imagine a very different scenario where like, There is very little laughter in the work they are doing because it is so hard. They're reclaiming so many years of lost academics. But this school has created the space where, like, learning is still challenging, absolutely, but that it is also joy filled and it affirms who they are and is supporting them. And so I think that's a beautiful example of a school working to really have a powerful impact on young people. Wow, that's amazing. There, there's some just extraordinary schools. And so I guess I'll pull one from my class, um, of the work my kids have done. And this is really not necessarily like on me, but on like what the kiddos have done in the ways they've transformed things, uh, which I just think is really, really cool. Um, so every year we start off our learning, um, I teach US history, um, with the study of immigration from the early 1900s. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And when I was first sort of constructing the, the unit project, I was looking online and a lot of classes, a lot of lesson plan ideas said like, have your kids imagine they were coming to new country. And of course my kids have to imagine because my kids are. And so what I wanted to do was to center their expertise, center their stories, their histories as a vital part of our study of U. S. history. Um, and we do this in the very first like two months of the school year by writing a cookbook and they have to go, they have to choose a favorite family recipe and they have to go interview mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, aunt, uncle for the recipe because we know the recipe is better than anything on the Internet. You have to translate into English and translate into language others will understand, say like cook until done. What does that mean? Um, right. You have to write a story about that recipe, about, um, why that recipe is important to their family. Maybe it's connected to a religious or, um, another sort of holiday event. And then a little bit about their story of migration to the U. S. Then, they cook the food, and they bring it in. We all try each other's food. Oh my gosh. It's the best day ever. It's so, like, you roll out of the classroom, you are so full after it. It's the best. Um, and then we, um, I take all of the photos from the food they brought in, and their recipes, and their stories, and we publish a cookbook, um, called Tasty. Oh, wow. And we What is it called again? Tasty. It's called Tasting History. Oh, okay. Um, and there's a link about this project actually on my website. I can share it with you. Um, but a cool part of the impact that, um, my students have had is, so they've shared this cookbook out into the community and we write one every year. About three, four years ago, our cafeteria team reached out to us. Um, the students had just won a, a regional award for their cookbook and they said, you know, we'd like to partner with you. And so they came in and worked with me and particularly with my students to choose a selection of recipes from the cookbook. And then they adapted those recipes based on nutrition guidelines that they needed to meet and also what you can acquire for, uh, scale cooking in a cafeteria. And then really powerfully, they brought their, what they'd cook back to the kids to have them taste test it and go, what do we need to change? Really positioning my kids as the teachers, as they are. They are the teachers here. Um, and so seeking out their expertise. And then. Um, the cafeteria team who has been amazing partners in this, um, have gone on to serve these dishes from my students in the cafeteria to both our school, which has 3500 kids and to across the district to 14, 000 students. Oh, my goodness. I know, and it's through this collaboration for the first time, food from Cambodia, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Dominican Republic, Bangladesh, um, uh, Somaliland, Rwanda, and so many countries have been served for the first time in our cafeteria. And that's because of my students and their leadership, and then also the cafeteria team in our school and their leadership. That's amazing. That gave me the chills. I, I wonder if they have like a cafeteria, like school food competition, cause they would win judges. I could be a judge. I think the very first recipe we did was look black, which is a Cambodian dish. That's absolutely delicious. And there were. Huge lines in the cafeteria, and it was just it was just an absolute knockout. People were coming back for seconds, but it's been really exciting, and it's really important. I mean, the big things are schools doing the little things are schools do send a message. And when kids see that their food is celebrated, um, in the cafeteria, like that matters. It's not going to be the big transformative changes, maybe an education, but it really does matter. That the food our kids are eating at home is showing up in the cafeteria as well. No, it makes a huge difference because when they're, let's say, sometimes the parent wants to make lunch for the child and they're thinking, Oh, are the kids going to make fun of them? Cause they're eating with their hands or they're, I mean, maybe not because all kids do their hands, but, um, but you know, or what is this thing and what is that? And, but having it actually as a school. Lunch, then it makes it normal. You know, even when I'll make dumplings for my son and I'm like, chopsticks. And I think to myself like, I wonder if anyone's gonna make fun of him.'cause using chopstick and nobody does. We're all, it's also very diverse, but sometimes you just never know. You know? You never know. And it just normalizes it. The spices, the things. Oh, that's amazing. Starving now. No, you know, just doing that project is so fun because I could, I could imagine them going to their family member, whoever it is, and, um, or caretaker and just saying, Oh, can you help me make this? And they'd be like, okay, you just throw a bit of this and a little bit of that. Like, well, what is that? Like, is that a teaspoon or what? And you're just like, you know, just like a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And that's what happens. So funny. And then they have to learn like math, right? Cause they have to also like measure and think, okay, that's looks like a cup. Let's like, you know, mom, try to put it in a, in a cup and see if that's what it is. Yeah. I can only imagine. That's such a great project. I'm going to steal all these ideas just so you know, please. I mean, and I have I'm happy to share. So I am more than happy. It is sharing in the same way that I've learned from so many educators across the country who have been really generous in sharing their ideas. So, more than happy to share. Thank you so much. No, I'm just kidding. But yes, if you're willing to share, I will definitely use them. But yeah, and I think, You know, food really connects people together, right? Food connects to people from different cultures and starting them from such a young age. It's just it's perfect. It's exactly what you know what we need. Um, so thank you for sharing that. I'd love to now get into a little more about your book. book. Yeah. So what made you decide to even, you know, to write Making America? And I know you've written before that, but tell us a little bit about Making America. So Making Americans, um, no, Making Americans. Sorry about that. No, no, no worries. Um, it came out of, um, really this, the extraordinary work my students do and seeing all of their strengths. Um, I mean, we've talked about their strengths already, but like their cultural and linguistic navigators for their families. They're bringing a just a whole wealth of knowledge and skills from having lived in multiple countries and cultures, their masters that negotiation and problem solving and teamwork, like I could go on and on and seeing these strengths and also seeing how schools didn't always. Invest in these strengths, um, or recognize these strengths or value these strengths. Um, and so wanting to see how we could reimagine immigrant education to, to better invest in our students and to, to really hopefully nurture for our students that sense of belonging that they could show up with their full selves. Um, and that we wanted their full selves. It's best for students. It's best for communities. And then also to wanting to just be a better educator for my students. Um, and so wanting to learn from others. And so I. I had the opportunity with the support of my school and school leadership to step out of the classroom for a year on an Emerson Collective Fellowship to begin doing the research for what became Making Americans. And I quickly decided that we needed three sets of stories to re imagine what immigrant education could be. First, we needed stories of the past. There are some really powerful and really essential stories of key laws, Supreme Court cases and movements over the last hundred and fifty years that have transformed immigrant education. I'm a history teacher, so I really nerd out about these and they're super powerful. Super powerful and fun. Um, but they're also, they're not stories. They're not known. I didn't know most of these stories, um, before I set out to write this book, but they need to be known. So first of all, there's the stories of the past. Then we need stories of the present. We need those stories of innovative schools like the Global Village Project in Georgia or Las Americas in Houston or others in Colorado or North Dakota or Maryland. Um, and so many more. Um, there's really extraordinary innovation happening across the country right now, but it's often not known outside their community. And so we need those stories of the present to be able to learn from um folks today of what they're doing and to be able to build on that and then finally And for me as an educator, this is perhaps the most important. We need stories of the personal. We need stories of our young people and their experience, uh, young immigrants, their experience of our schools. That if we're serious about re imagining what immigrant education looks like, we need to be asking the young people who are experiencing it. And if we can draw on these three sets of lessons, these three sets of stories, stories of the past, stories of the present, and stories of the personal, I think we're best set up to imagine what's possible in immigrant education. And so that was the idea for setting out to write what became Making Americans, and I got to learn in the classrooms of others, I got to sit down with some of my own remarkable former students to learn about their experience at schools, and I got to dive into the history of these laws and cases, and the folks who were part of making these laws and cases happen, to understand these stories and to draw lessons. That's awesome. That's amazing. And is this book specifically for educators or also for anyone, really? Phenomenal question. It is for everyone. My hope is so at the heart. These are stories. These are stories of intimate individuals, whether they be folks who lived 100 years ago educators today or young people today. Um, but these are the stories of courageous individuals. I really tried to strip it of jargon. Um, but my hope is that it is rich enough for those in the field, whether it be educators or attorneys or community activists, that there are strong lessons to draw from the wisdom of all these different folks. Um, But that like you don't need to be a constitutional scholar to hopefully be really excited about some of these Supreme Court cases. And like the court cases are fascinating and really important. Um, yeah, no. Um, so, but it is, I, it's ideally a book for, for all folks, those who are deeply involved in immigration work or in education, and also those who maybe don't think they are. But hopefully will want to be once they read these stories. Totally, totally. And yeah, I'm super excited to read it. And where can people buy your book? I mean, so I always encourage folks to visit their local bookstores and get it from local bookstores to support those. It is accessible and available through local bookstores, but of course also like the Amazons and the other big book distributors have it as well. And it's in, uh, Hardback, softback, uh, audio and, uh, Kindle or like an e reader version. That's so awesome. Yeah. And you have a couple other books so we can find more of you. What are you working on now? Well, I am working on building off the lessons I learned from the book. And so, um, Really, I mentioned earlier that like, there are these extraordinary, uh, innovative experiments happening across the country and creative ideas in schools, but that they're not often known. I often give the example of one of the schools I profile is a program called Enlace, which is in Lawrence, Massachusetts, which takes place 15 minutes away from me, or it is, is 15 minutes away from me, um, where I work in Lowell, and I didn't know about it. Until I was researching this book and I just imagine like what it would have been like for me as a younger educator having been able to visit that school early on and be able to look at it. And so my hope is to help work on better identifying innovative teachers and creative ways of supporting immigrant origin students so that we can learn from each other. And then also taught tackling some of like the, the key policy challenges that our students are facing. They might not be like these huge transformative, um, like total reimaginings, but. Small, small sort of inroads in that if we could fix things could have a really profound impact on our young people, maybe next year. Um, and so trying to do some of that convening collaborative work so that we can learn from each other and trying to tackle some of those policy and pedagogy questions as well. Oh, awesome. Well, I look forward to what you're gonna do in the future. Want to have one one last question, which is what advice would you give a fellow teacher who? Is, you know, maybe a newer teacher, and I know teachers who are new, like struggle in the beginning with just classroom management, just even the basics, because I was telling you earlier, I helped co found a school in Los Angeles. And so just learning more about, you know, what teachers go through it. It's been fascinating. And Honestly, it's the hardest job ever because I've been on field trips where I just spend only like a couple of hours with these kids and I'm like done and exhausted after. So I don't know how anybody does it all day, every day, but, um, so kudos to you. But what, you know, what advice would you give kind of a newer teacher when in, in, in maybe teaching English? immigrant children and, um, or anyone really, like what, what kind of advice would you give them if they're struggling at just a little bit? So I think for, for our educators, particularly as I was saying, like most of our educators will have immigrant origin students in our classes of really thinking about. How to nurture that sense of belonging for our students that they are creating new homes and new lives here. And so how, how can you in your classroom through, um, how you're designing your classroom, how you're writing your curriculum, how you're teaching, um, be showing your students that you're investing in their identities, their histories, that they can show up in their full selves. Um, I would say that. There are three important collaborator, four, four important collaborators, um, for educators, for all educators, but particularly for new educators. Um, one of course is your students, um, is co creating those spaces with your students, thinking about the projects that take the learning outside of the classroom. Um, but that also means investing and getting to know your students. Um, and I'm really opening those doors for them to share who they are, Um, feel that this is a trusting, safe space. Um, so first the collaboration with your young people and students collaboration, of course, with, um, colleagues in the, in the school and then also outside that there's so much we can learn from, um, other educators. And I think often teaching can feel really isolating. Um, schools are not always set up to create the space for you to learn from other educators. And so, as much as possible, still seeking out other teachers, whether they be at your school or not to learn from them, because there's great practice. Um, we don't do enough of this in education, but seeking out and trying to learn from families, Building collaborative partnerships and equal partnerships with families. And my second book was on family engagement that I co authored with an extraordinary professor of family engagement, Professor Karen Mapp, and then an amazing teacher, Eileen Carver. And the importance of families in this work that families for me are my most important partner in supporting students. And so for a young teacher of Getting to, to know, to learn, um, learn from your families and build relationships with families and then, uh, collaborating with the community. There's so many great community partners out there, um, that the walls of the classroom really extend out into the city or should, um, and how can you bring the community into the classroom and bring your students out into the community? But you have all those partners in this work, which makes it, um, both a lot more fun and a lot more impactful. Yes. Yes, that's great advice. It's really about working with other people asking for help collaborating. Yes, building relationships all around you. That'll just give you that team that support. Absolutely. I love it. I love it. Well, Jessica, congratulations on all your success. It's this is so amazing. And I love your just your positive attitude, your optimism. And thank you. And I, you know, I wish you were my teacher when I was younger than you, but anyway, um, there's somebody like you, um, no, thank you so much for your time and you're so inspirational. And I, I hope, you know, everything you write another book and I bring you back again. Thank you so much. Now this has been so much fun. So thank you for having me on the call and the conversation. Um, it's, it's really, it's been such a journey and such an inspiration to learn from my students and learn from so many. So it's exciting to be able to, to share the work they're doing and to share these stories. Um, so thank you for the conversation. Oh, thank you. This podcast is intended for general education and informational purposes only, and should not be regarded as either legal advice or a legal opinion. You should not act upon or use this publication or any of its contents for any specific situation. Recipients are cautioned to obtain legal advice from their legal counsel with respect to any decision or course of action contemplated in a specific situation. Clark Hill PLC and its attorneys provide legal advice only after establishing an attorney client relationship through a written attorney client engagement agreement. This recording does not establish an attorney client relationship with any recipient.